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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
26
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Posted - 2011.11.05 04:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to know how you think about this stuff mentioned by Hilmar in that Eurogamer interview.
Quote:But some of my concerns right now relate to whether the CSM is maybe focused on a particular aspect of the game and I'm starting to get feedback from players that they worry the CSM is too pre-occupied by a certain playstyle. That might mean we may need to change the structure, but definitely the CSM has worked as a feedback tool greatly throughout the years.
Do you see any way the CSM could benefit from a change in structure? Do you think the CSM is adequatly representing all players? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 02:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Che Biko wrote:
Do you see any way the CSM could benefit from a change in structure? Do you think the CSM is adequatly representing all players?
I think the CSM needs one change only for CSM7: a minimum signatures requirement to be added on the ballot. Something relatively minor, like 100 signatures. [..] The CSM, like all democratic bodies, represents those interests which care enough about their issues to get off their asses and vote in an organized way. This means that the unorganized and unmotivated are completely unrepresented, just like in the real world.
Mmm, that signatures thing might have some benefits.
I am not sure where you stand yet on my second question. Can I conclude from your statements that the CSM doesn't represent all players and that's the way you think it should be?
IIRC the CSM now serves in one year terms. What if 3 months after the election, something happens and a certain group of players becomes motivated and organized, but alas, the election is 9 months away. What do you think the CSM should do in this situation? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
29
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:You have a preconceived notion about the nature of the CSM and will twist anything I say to try to support that notion.
I won't play ball with your tinfoil.
You seem to have a preconceived notion about me.
I'll asume that you think my notion is "the CSM does not represent all players, but it should". I hope you'll agree that you haven't written anything (to me, anyway) that indicates the contrary, even when I ask you to clarify your statements. Quite the opposite, you avoid giving me clear answers, leaving me thinking you don't want to give clear answers.
You could have answered my question either a simple "yes" or "no" but instead you decided to post this (which is, as far as I can tell, supposed to be the answer to my question):
The Mittani wrote:The CSM, like all democratic bodies, represents those interests which care enough about their issues to get off their asses and vote in an organized way. This means that the unorganized and unmotivated are completely unrepresented, just like in the real world.
Because this does not give me a clear answer, you leave it to me to interpret it. And when I then ask if a certain interpretation is the correct one, you refuse to answer, and seemingly try to discredit me to justify your actions.
I have been, and still am, more respectful to you than you have been to me. I therefor find it ironic that you are done playing ball with me. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 18:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Amusingly, the release of the minutes didn't see much action itt, so I assume you all loved them!
Well, some people post on the comments thread of the devblog, and others on the related thread on Jita Park instead of ITT.
The Mittani wrote:I got elected to chair with only 1750 GSF votes in CSM6; the rest of my 5365 votes came from non-GSF sources,
How do you know this? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 13:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hmm, that answer does two things for me:
- It strengthens my dislike for strategic voting.
- It shows a reason why candidates that have no ties with large alliances/corps/blocs could indeed be at a disadvantage, at least initially.
3500 votes, that was about 3/5 of GSF, right? And the total amount of EVE population voting for the CSM was 14.25%.
As I see it there no way a group of independant people could organize themselves in a way that would attract a similar amount of votes from people that would otherwise not vote for the CSM, or to organize and monitor voting in a similar way (yes, I am assuming a lot of goons would not have voted for the CSM if they were not asked to vote for one of their members.) They don't have the pre-existing communication lines with large amounts of players (not to mention the command and obey nature of the mentioned groups). This gives large alliances/corps/blocs candidates an advantage other candidates do not have. Candidates belonging to large groups could possibly be voted into the CSM just because they asked their groups to do so.
Do you see this possible advantage as a problem, and if not, why not? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 16:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:People always get mad at the idea that organization matters in democracy, and imply that organization is somehow undemocratic. Well, part of a democratic process is that they get equal "media exposure". One could say that the goons have a similar advantage as a candidate in control of a nations media, like Berlusconi or some "elected" dictators. (I know this is somewhat of a mismatched comparison, but I can't think of a better real-world comparison at the moment.)
How would a candidate be able to build an organization that has the same benefits as the one you belong to? |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
I did not say that you had special coverage on the eve forum, I was talking about the goon forum. What you said that only makes the state media comparison more valid: goons regard the eve forum as irrelevant to the election process and thus some goons will not even know about other candidates who post there and not on the goon forum.
I don't see the democracy + argument, I am just talking about what is generally considered one of the requirements for a free election. That includes things like having multiple parties, anonymous voting, and equal media coverage. While this is not in a strict sense part of the democratic definition, it is part of a democracy as I'd like to see it.
I know any candidate can make an organization from scratch to back them, but not every candidate can use an existing organization. Having communication lines with thousands of people who mostly ignore the forums is not something you can just create out of thin air. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 18:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah, I knew I should have written "existing, non-CSM-related organization". It seems you think having to build a goon size alliance is now a perfectly acceptable requirement for equal CSM election participation.
BTW I love how your respectful composure is lost when someone does not conform to your opinion or shuts up within 3 posts of discussion, and start calling them whiners, stupid or other degoratory terms. Chairman material. I wish you acted the same in your discussions with the CSM and CCP. |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
65
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 16:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:yeah, because everyone's opinion deserves respect
lawl
Opinions don't, but most people should be treated with respect even if you don't respect them. It's common courtesy. Even though you've treated me with far less respect than I've treated you, it still does not stop me from showing you more than you show me.
If I have done anything that makes me not worthy of being treated with respect, than please tell me what it is.
If you are tired of discussing a certain topic with me there are more polite ways to let me know. If you choose not to do so without a valid reason (and there are few valid reasons IMO) then it looks like you are trying to manipulate me emotionally. |
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